IDK who needs to hear this but traffic lights were not invented and are rarely installed to improve safety
@Bikevisionary yep. traffic lights improve predictability, which improves flow.
better flow does not mean more safety, and in fact often means the opposite. when someone tells you they need to improve congestion "for safety," they either misunderstand the relationship between congestion and safety or they are lying.
@Bikevisionary Ripping out traffic lights isn't the answer though: sadly, we've gone too far down that road (sorry). But we *can* use traffic lights--in concert with better intersection design--to prioritize safety instead of flow if only we have the guts.
@DrTCombs ROUNDABOUTS ARE THE ANSWER
@VirtualRook sometimes, yes, but only if they too are designed to prioritize safety rather than flow
otherwise, they're just a fancy way to keep cars moving
@DrTCombs Sadly does'nt prevent people using that as an excuse when it comes to pedestrian crossings.
I guess I'll only say it promotes safety if 1) it's always on (or at least on when more needed - I've seen some that are turned off at night, in places where most speeding and dangerous driving happens at night!) 2) it does not have a long wait time for pedestrians wishing to cross (if it's mainly for safety, then there surely should be no reason to make pedestrians wait one minute or more?).
@DrTCombs
...yeah, most often it's quite visible that these are for some sort of vehicle flow management.
I'm just saying it'd help a lot if we got rid of this misconception/lie, especially among people who make decisions such as installing traffic lights. Because then they will claim they're improving safety, but they might well end up not improving safety *and* also making it even less attractive to move on foot.
@DrTCombs And regarding flow management... some installations don't even take *pedestrian* flow into account, when they make it impossible to cross the road in one installment, but at the same time do not offer infrastructure to safely wait in the "islands". It's as if the design was actively trying to discourage or disregard pedestrians as monsters who should not exist.
(Sorry for the three-part post, Mastodon limit on this instance.)
@DrTCombs (And sorry for talking at length about things you probably know all about.
Well, for short, if you ever are in need of examples, I'm sure the Lisbon metropolitan area has a lot to offer...)
@DrTCombs what is their purpose? Traffic flow?