We build a lot of other really confusing features into our transportation infrastructure, and for some reason believe it's ok because we know how drivers are just SO SMART AND CAREFUL AND ATTENTIVE that everything will work out. The assumption of perfect humans is baked into our manuals and highway codes.

(3/3)

For example, we'll have "walk" signals illuminated for pedestrians at the same time we give green lights to drivers who want to cross the paths of those very same pedestrians. It's one of the most common causes of pedestrians getting run over at signalized intersections.

But our unique and absurd practice of telling drivers they can *also* cross pedestrians' paths if they have a red light is next level dangerous.

(4/4)

There are a couple of things that can go wrong when we just let drivers decide if it's safe to go on red.

One is when a driver approaching a red light forgets--as they do--about stopping, and is so preoccupied with looking left for a safe gap to dart into into that they fail to look right to check for crosswalk users who are traveling facing traffic. This can obviously be deadly.

(5/5)

Another, more insidious but by no means less frustrating, is when would-be right-turners do stop, but they stop *in the crosswalk* so they can get a better view of the traffic they're hoping to turn into. And then they just...sit...and...sit...blocking the whole ass crosswalk.

(6/6)

And of course the drivers that do both: fly up to the intersection with no intention of stopping or looking for humans before turning, but then realizing there's too much traffic so they have to <gasp> wait their turn even though they're already halfway in the intersection.

(7/7)

What does all this look like in real time?

I'm glad you asked! Here's one minute, as promised, on why our truly harebrained practice of letting drivers turn right on red needs to effing end.

(CW mild but warranted adult language)

(8/8)

https://urbanists.video/w/iM2tp6GQFbWica9EsLML2H

@DrTCombs

Just when did "stop bars" become a suggestion?

@Streetsweeper I think they have a special coating to make them invisible through windshields

@DrTCombs

Given the state of DMV road tests these days, I doubt they are even mentioned as necessary or penalized.

@DrTCombs considering the driver behavior the reactions were pretty mild.
While it’s true their behavior is induced by bad laws and infrastructure, I do believe that driving generally has a tendency to make people act in antisocial ways (like a$$holes). No doubt US laws and infrastructure foster a pretty extreme sense of entitlement in drivers

@DrTCombs We don't have the same problem here in the US for the most part, but give it time.

@LanguageMan1 I'm in the US...we absolutely have this problem here!

@DrTCombs Yes, I see that it's happening in various areas. It's not all over, but in many areas.

@DrTCombs Then again, I guess it's already happening.

@DrTCombs This whole thread is 🎯 As someone who grew up in the UK, the whole RTOR when I moved to Canada completely baffled me - it is such an easy fix but for #CarBrain in our elected officials. But I was kinda comforted by your reactions - this is me every day and why I typically post my videos without audio! 🫢

@DrTCombs You want to really piss off other drivers the next time you're behind the wheel? Forget about travelling at the speed limit or lower, that's child's play. To really enrage people in cars, try waiting at a red light with your right turn signal on (something you're legally absolutely within your right to do).

@DrTCombs
Good video.

I've been wanting to make a video showing that on some intersections here, a majority of people executing the RTOR don't come close to actually stopping, and in too many cases, don't even slow down. They treat those right turn lanes like slip lanes. I've had way too many close calls on one particular intersection.

Good discussion.

@DrTCombs No RTOR in NYC yet drivers do insist on running up fast to lights especially when green in hopes of beating them.

@DrTCombs On several occasions I have nearly been killed while legally using a crosswalk that a driver raced into despite the red light; they were invariably looking left for a gap in traffic, not straight ahead where I was walking. I think the closest one got after jamming on the brakes was about 2’. Absolutely terrifying.

[Edit: typo]

@DrTCombs A driver’s first priority is to look out for other cars, and if there is time, energy or attention left, they can look for non-car traffic. It’s quite natural if you think about it, because they look for things that can hurt them. Pedestrians can’t, so they’re (mostly) irrelevant.

This is how I learnt how to cross streets in Kuala Lumpur 25 years ago. The drivers have to be afraid to bump into other cars, otherwise they won’t stop.

@DrTCombs this is super annoying when walking, and as you say needlessly dangerous

@DrTCombs In NYC without RTOR peds hit the street whenever the lights turn red or walk signal comes on. Many are staring at their phones. Some bike riders go through the reds and almost hit them, freaking them out so now their clamoring for licensing and insuring bikers.

@DrTCombs @YimbyEarth

Yes! I was just worrying about that at a local intersection near a school.

https://mastodo.neoliber.al/@petes_bread_eqn_xls/113153449580031560

@DrTCombs Japan has this too - almost certainly the USA’s fault 😉

But seriously, this system for traffic lights is scary as a pedestrian and as a driver (especially as a visitor in a rental car)🚦⚠️

@DenkiJidousha @DrTCombs In the whole of Japan? I’ve never seen this, but almost all of my traffic experience is from Sapporo (where I’ve lived more than a year in total). There are many interesting pedestrian signal configurations there, but I’ve never had any problems of this kind.

@ahltorp @DrTCombs I don't know - certainly Tokyo and Chiba which is where I've done most of my driving and walking in Japan.

@DenkiJidousha @DrTCombs If I understand correctly, in Japan there has to be a certain road sign that indicates that turn-left-on-red is allowed, but I can’t remember ever seeing that. Since i didn’t know about it, maybe I’ve just missed it.

@ahltorp @DrTCombs I didn't mean turn-left-on-red (remember Japan like UK drives on the left) which is another oddity I associate with the USA (where it is turn right on red), but rather that pedestrians and cars can both have green lights at the same time for the same bit of road - the drivers need to watch out for any pedestrians and give way.

With UK traffic lights, when pedestrians have a green light, all the vehicles routes they cross have a red light and are not allowed to go.

@DrTCombs You may be interested in a video I'll have ready in a few weeks on biking in China. I find in NA that everything is supposed to be well designed so drivers feel they don't need to pay as much attention. In China, the design is not as good plus drivers break the rules so drivers are slower and more attentive. I cannot find the stats of which is better. I do prefer the European way of actually using design to slow vehicles and protect people.

@DrTCombs to be fair many drivers think stops are optional when going straight too

@DrTCombs
This is also allowed in parts of Germany!