Theory: People on bikes are far more apt to comply with traffic controls - even at a time penalty - when they are explicitly intended for them. Think bike-specific signal faces.
Hunchy anecdata: Bike riders seem to wait for the short bike-exclusive community path crossing of Mass Ave at Cedar at even higher rate than peds wait for their earlier and longer-phase crossings. (I cede to @sofio wisdom here tho)
@DemonHusky me too. i think it's not just us zealots though. research shows greater compliance among all riders, but seeing peds go across Mass Ave/Cedar on red while a platoon of bikes waits every time i pass through, i think the effect is even greater than i'd hope. Similar at Minuteman/Lake @sofio
@bikepedantic @sofio My theory is we are conscious of injury, far more than drivers. We understand the slightest mistake can mean days/weeks of recovery. A driver makes mistakes, it's seen as a financial penalty
@bikepedantic Personally I'm less likely to comply with bike-specific signal faces, but that could be because the ones I use with any regularity are awful. The ones in Brookline Village are especially bad, and the ones on the Staniford/Causeway cycletrack are also bad. They feel like they were put there just to cause undue delay.
@aweechwhobikes yeah, def ones that are there because the reasonable alternative isn’t legal (Mass Ave/ Beech). Haven’t ridden these, but feel like I’ve heard mutterjngs about the Brookline ones before
@aweechwhobikes @bikepedantic the ones north of the river are generally great, fwiw. And the Brookline ones I believe will be modified in the fall to be cocurrent (+LBI)
@aweechwhobikes @bikepedantic yep. When the bike signal is clearly disrespectful of people on bikes, just to maximize car throughout, don't expect increased compliance.
@enobacon @aweechwhobikes @bikepedantic that’s not why it’s that way but okay
@sofio @aweechwhobikes @bikepedantic I would love to hear an explanation (besides car supremacy) for the timing on harbor drive crossing Naito, or the red bike signal to cross the Hawthorne ramp which is packed full of cars for half of the car green cycle.
@enobacon @aweechwhobikes @bikepedantic probably a mistake. Ask Peter Koonce
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@bikepedantic @sofio Generally agree, exception when there is an exclusive or leading ped signal but the bike signal is only car concurrent
@bikepedantic yeah I think this is true. It also validates them on the roadway. If it’s a bike signal, it’s directly for bikes so it feels worse to violate it
@bikepedantic @sofio It doesn't take a lot of bike-riding in most cities to see that the signage is not intended for bikes, and feels sometimes like a joke. Case in point, when you're on an off-street bike path approaching an intersection, and the paint says "XING HWY" or an awkwardly high sign commands you to dismount and walk. [edit: punctuation]
@gang @bikepedantic @sofio My favorite "XING HWY" is the Linear Park where it's functionally a dead end on one side
@DemonHusky @bikepedantic @sofio highway code literalism alienates! we can do better!
I've been mulling on something similar this week.
My car brained friend was complaining about witnessing a cyclist break the law. It's probably most effective for me to say, "they shouldn't do that but motorists break the law more and are actually dangerous so it's weird that bothered you."
I think they perceive this as whataboutism. However, I want to say, "cyclists shouldn't follow laws designed for motorists." But I don't because it's too radical for them to grok.
The real icing on the cake is that they were complaining about cyclist rolling through stop signs, which is legal in Washington!
I plan to bring that up at the right moment and note that it's interesting they -- as a motorist -- don't know the law and yet felt confident criticizing the cyclist's behavior.
I suspect they'll be a little humbled. But imo it's bananas to me that formalizing completely safe behavior into law impacts their perceptions. The psychology is weird.
And so they may be a little humbled but even after:
1) talking to a friend that they trust and care about who tells them personal experiences with driver nonsense
2) and realizing they were wrong about this specific instance
I don't think I'll persuade them that their paradigm (car brain) leading to their annoyance and focus on bikers is the real problem.
Which all is to say, people are self-ish/self-centered and the psychology of road design -- both for drivers and cyclist -- needs to exploit selfishness to produce the right outcomes.
So yeah, I think cyclist will obey purpose built signage more since the personal repercussions of disobedience are higher.
@bikepedantic @sofio That logic checks out for me. The first time I saw that bike signal light, I was so excited. (I get my own light, and it’s shaped like a bike!) But I do feel like the slight added complexity adds opportunity for confusion. There was one time when I was waiting for the bike green, and a ped who was crossing towards me told me I have right of way.
@bikepedantic Do you think the same holds true to bicycle signals with circular indications (bike signals without a bike aspect but with a green ball)? I’m designing a signal right now with a few of these to get around MUTCD regulations and would be curious to people’s thoughts!
@bikepedantic @sofio anecdotal counterpoint - Inman Square :)
@jdantos @bikepedantic really ? I see good signal compliance there
@bikepedantic @sofio If things are clearly designed for cyclists, I will absolutely be more likely to wait for the proper phase, otherwise I don't mind getting thru the intersection ASAP